Civic/7th Gen Project - Fix EP3 Slipped Timing Chain

Discussion in 'Project & Modification Logs' started by SpeedyGee, Sunday 2nd Feb, 2014.

  1. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Had this Civic Type-R in a while back, owner said it conked out at a set of lights and wouldn't start again.

    So he had it towed to me. After some basic checks, I removed the rocker cover was greeted by this :-

    2014-01-12 08.00.11.
    2014-01-12 08.00.29.

    2014-01-12 08.00.33.

    A badly slipped chain.

    So I reported the bad news back to the owner. Owner asked what now ? So I said, I think it's a failed tensioner, i've got a spare chain and tensioner, I could go ahead, get the chain and tensioner swapped over, get it timed up and see how it goes. It may have suffered bent/damaged valves etc but quickest way to find out is get the spare chain and tensioner on and see how she is after that. Couldn't do a leak down test because the cams were out of synch with each other and cylinder one was somewhere other than TDC. Alternative was to rip the engine apart for visual inspection.

    Owner chose to go down "try the spare chain and tensioner" option.

    So I commenced dismantling, you can change the chain and tensioner on these with engine in situ. Start by draining the water from the engine. You then need to support the engine from underneath with a jack and big block of wood. Block of wood needs to wide enough to cover all the sump and catch part of the gearbox too, thereby spreading the weight of the engine over a large area (as opposed to putting pressure on a small part of the sump).

    With the engine supported, you can take the offside engine mount completely off.
    Followed by the water pipe going across the timing cover, I only took the front side off as the back clip is rather awkward to take off.
    Next up, remove the aux belt.
    With that off, you can start removing the bolts on the timing cover. There five bolts along the front side, three at the bottom, 7 along the back. Then theres one bolt holding the VTC and next to the VTC is a bolt a final bolt hold the timing chain on.
    With the VTC, take the bolt off, twist the VTC so the that any sealant and rubber o rings free up and the VTC will still appear as if its firmly held in place but all that's holding it are rubbed o rings, get a long nose pliers in behind the connector of VTC and gently pry it out.

    Lay out all the bolts in order as there are two types of bolts :-

    2014-01-12 14.42.34.
    2014-01-12 14.42.09.
    2014-01-12 14.54.19.

    Here's the two types of bolts

    2014-01-15 12.00.43.

    Here's the spare tensioner and chain I had saved in some amniotic fluid, well engine oil.

    2014-01-12 15.11.35.

    As I'd mentioned earlier, the cams were out of line with each other and some way out of line with crank, so to get everything lined up correctly timed up again, with the chain totally removed I had to lift the cams totally off the cam carriers, bring the crank to its TDC marking (second pic below and then refit the cams in there correct placement.

    Unfortunately I was way to engrossed to take any pics when I was lining everything up, so there's no pics with the chain totally off.

    Excuse the cable tied spanners, I needed to hold the cams to stop them springing off the chain (I was working on my own).
    2014-01-14 17.48.00.

    So with some fiddling and constant rechecking of timing marks, I eventually got the replacement chain on.
    2014-01-14 17.59.57.

    Crank lined up to TDC.
    2014-01-14 18.29.02.

    With everything lined up, replacement tensioner was set in place and timing rechecked after several turns of the crank, it all looked good and no more clicking coming from a failed tensioner.

    Assembly was recommensed :-
    2014-01-14 23.12.53.

    Unfortunately phone battery died and I didn't manage to take any further pictures.

    But importantly with everything reassembled, cranked the engine, she started up first time and to my surprise, ran spot on.

    I had been planning to do a leak down test after reassembly but with the engine running nice and smooth with no strange noises at all I didnt even bother with that.

    Owner was one happy chappy !
     
    Last edited: Sunday 2nd Feb, 2014
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  2. AccordCU2 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Another Honda saved by your magic hands:Hey::GoodJob:
     
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  3. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    For sure Zoran, owner was contemplating breaking it as he thought only option was to fork out for a replacement engine. I persuaded him to give it to me try and bring back to life. It felt really strong after it was fixed, chap said it had never felt like that.

    By the way the root cause of all this was very poor oil maintenance ! The chain tensioner needs oil pressure to work, but with the oil not having been changed at correct intervals it had become think and sticky, the hole going into the tensioner isn't very big, so that must have got blocked and tensioner starved of oil leading to it's failure.

    Can't stress how important regular oil changes are people !
     
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  4. AccordCU2 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Agree 100% with you.I change oil every 4000-5000 k miles to make sure or at least prolong engine life as much as i can.
     
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  5. Ichiban Retired ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Awesome work there speedy. what was the oil condition bud? what was the tensioner rod like ?

    One lucky owner no sever damage :GoodJob: speedy to the rescue
     
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  6. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

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    Oil was thick black nasty looking, well passed its serviceable life.

    Tensioner rod, the teeth had rounded off as it had just been bouncing back and forth with no oil pressure behind it.
    I think I still got it lying around somewhere, will dig it up and take a pic.
     
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  7. Ichiban Retired ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Honda abuser name and shame the owner..:telloff:
     
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  8. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    LOL. Youngsters ... just want to get in and make their Civic Type-R go baaaawaaaahhhaaa. Don't know anything else about it.
     
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  9. Ichiban Retired ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    init :Devil: this does happen to the Accord too. I just hope the owner no understands the gravity and importance of oil changes..
     
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  10. Ichiban Retired ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    England CJ Leeds
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    You know what after this thread I may change my current oil change regime from 6000 to 3000 k for my 7th Generation now. My 8th Generation is already on a 3000K oil change interval and the benefits are clear to see and feel.
     
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  11. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    6000 is regular enough, I stick to 6000 mile interval and I know the inside of my engine is super duper clean.

    Have a look at this photo that I took at the last service, (had the cam cover off to do valve clearances).

    2013-11-02 10.08.18.

    There's no sludgy oil build up anywhere, it's all clean. So a 6000 mile service interval is plenty good enough.
     
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  12. DeviateDefiant Managing Director H-Tune Staff

    United Kingdom Leo Corby
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    Great work Speedy, your garage is no doubt starting to get quite the name for itself.

    You should stop putting up head tear down pictures else I'm going to be tempted to try replacing things myself :Whistle:
     
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  13. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Go for it bud, you got most of the tools now.

    I've got another one I could put that up too, it's from early last year, took the head off that totally to get to the bottom of a misfire issue.
     
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  14. DeviateDefiant Managing Director H-Tune Staff

    United Kingdom Leo Corby
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    Well, it's not tearing things down and rebuilding them which worries me, it's following the right procedures so I don't screw things up. Taking off chains and realigning them correctly and what not, I'd be better getting someone to show me the ropes first.
     
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  15. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I'm running out of space in my signature to hosts all my project threads LOL

    Might have to get you to hack the software allow bigger signatures LOL

    I'd be more than happy to teach you the ropes mate, if you do decide to go ahead with your project.
     
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  16. DeviateDefiant Managing Director H-Tune Staff

    United Kingdom Leo Corby
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    Mate, look at the amount of mods in my signature! I ended up dropping the text size so it was more bearable.

    I've gone ahead and upped the limit in signatures for all members who have 25 posts or more :Thumbup:We'll revisit it properly for HK.

    There's no doubt I'll be getting to engine modifications at some point, just what I'll be building around that's in question. Still want to research more on the K20A vs. K24A3 heads.

    Thank you mate, I'm pretty sure I'll end up sinking in too much money, filling the car with insanely OTT parts and knocking at your door early one weekend morning :lol:
     
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  17. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Mine are all Hrefs, so there's more characters in the sig than you can see. I do use tiny url to shrink the urls though, this helped me saved a load of characters when I last hit the limit.
     
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  18. DeviateDefiant Managing Director H-Tune Staff

    United Kingdom Leo Corby
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    Yeah I actually set the limit for the length including BBCode higher too now, as VB seems looks at the both the plain text and mark-up limits separately.

    Btw if possible don't use an external link shortener for internal links, unless you have to, just because when I run SQL queries to modify all the internal links to match the HK domain it would end up missing them :Thumbup:
     
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  19. hondavtecr Commercial Services Trader

    Chris Manchester
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    Great write up Speedy!

    We had one in last month with similar issues, it struggled to start then when it would it ran lumpy, smelt of fuel and would occasionally stall.

    A quick compression check found major issues.

    We removed the cylinder head and found all the exhaust valves bent!

    We replaced the valves, head gasket and timing chain and it now runs like a dream.
     
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  20. Ichiban Retired ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    England CJ Leeds
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    Mines more less the same, beefy did mine a few days ago as I could be asked to do them out in the cold. The intake ones were fine but a few of the exhaust side were out of spec. can't get those exhaust gasses out fast enough! lol
     
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