Engine & Gearbox Problem of Oil Dilution by Petrol in 1.5 Turbo Engine

Discussion in '10th Generation (2016)' started by tomwillie, Saturday 16th Jun, 2018.

  1. tomwillie Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    In China Honda have stopped selling CR-Vs' & Civics' with the 1.5 turbo Engine. Same problem in USA & Canada regarding oil in sump being diluted with petrol.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...hina-after-recall-plan-rejected-idUSKCN1GE1P8

    http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums...ht-worse-than-you-think-1-5-turbo-issues.html

    http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums...psa-potential-issue-watch-your-oil-level.html

    https://motorillustrated.com/2018/04/oil-issues-with-hondas-1-5l-turbo-engines/

    I do only 6k miles/year so if I keep my car then I will have an oil & filter change every 3k/six months. This will also help to keep the oil less volatile & reduce coking of inlet valves which is endemic to all single port direct injection engines.
     
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  2. Ichiban Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    England CJ Leeds
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    However I have heard of a dozen 1.0 3 cylinder engines developing engine seizures and turbo vanes being chewed apart.. looking like metallic shards were found in the oil galleries. There are problems but Honda is masking them internally and dealers have a gagging order.

    No TSB have been announced or is there any official statement for the same.. but engine replacements have been happening in the UK.

    Nothing for the 1.5 engine as of yet.

    As for Diesel oil change frequency this is the following guidance

    The 18YM Civic diesel will be approved under Euro 6d emission requirements which includes World Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) and Real Driving Emissions (RDE) in addition to the existing New European Driving Cycle (NEDC).

    In order to achieve the required NOx levels for the new test procedures, additional fuel injection programming is required to maintain the required temperatures of the NSC (NOx storage Catalyst).

    This increased fuel injection results in higher levels of oil dilution and in order to maintain the oil dilution level below the required limits for oil quality, an increase in the engine oil change frequency is required.
    For 18YM Civic diesel, therefore, the oil change interval will change:
    Current: 16YM Civic diesel: 20,000km (12,500 miles) or 12 months.
    New: 18YM Civic diesel: 10,000km (6,250 miles) or 12 months.
     
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  3. tomwillie Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    Having read more about this problem it effects cars with CVT driven short distances every day in very cold weather. However, in USA a CR-V owner who’s wife drives 40 miles each way to work has had serious oil dilution problem. It seems in very cold weather the cold start injection sequence does not get turned off & advice is to drive in low gear until engine warms up. However, I found when test driving a CVT 1.5 Turbo Civic that when using the paddle shifters to lower the gearing the system automatically reverted to highest gear within a few seconds.

    My Civic Prestige 1.5 Turbo Manual warms up within 4 miles even after being left out all night in winter, so hopefully not too much of a problem. Nevertheless, will see if I can arrange an oil analysis check at next service, which is due in couple of weeks, & report findings.

    Otherwise car is running well & now achieving nearly calculated 50 MPG, computed MPG always about 2 MPG more.
     
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  4. tomwillie Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    @Ichiban; car is in for its first service tomorrow morning when an oil sample will be taken & sent to Millers Oils for testing, in particular to check for the sump oil being diluted with petrol.
    Millers Oils require to know the Brand of Oil, its Type & Grade.
    However, dealer does know what oil Honda use to first fill the Civic 1.5 Turbo engine on the production line & have had to refer to Honda Technical. Have you any idea what oil might be used as some manufacturers use special oil for an engine being run in?
     
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  5. tomwillie Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    @Ichiban, dealer enquired of Honda Technical who are supposed to have contacted the factory to enquire as to what engine oil is used to first fill the 1.5 Turbo engine in the Civic. Reply has been its a commercial secrete!!
    The oil the dealer now uses is Castrol Edge Professional 0W-20 Fully Synthetic.
    However, when I first bought the car I purchased a litre of Honda 0W-20 Type2.0 Engine Oil, is this the same as the Castrol Oil the dealer is using?
    Do you know what oil the factory does use?
     
    Last edited: Thursday 28th Jun, 2018
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  6. tomwillie Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    Oil analysis results attached. Recommendations are that due to wear the oil needs to be changed, which it has, and fuel dilution is near cautionary limits. This is at only 6125 miles in a car driven sensibly and most journeys of 2 X 10 to 15 miles. The recommended interval for oil changes is 12500 miles or annually. Several days before recent first service the cars service indicator predicted another 3600 miles so at about 9k miles. However, the garage forgot to reset the service indicator & after about 100 more miles the service indicator predicted another 3300 miles, so quickly reducing.
    The wear may be due to running in of the engine so I will have another analysis done next year after another 6k miles to see how things are progressing.
    My instinct is that 0W/30 synthetic oil might provide better protection?
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. Unplugged New Member Getting Started

    Israel unplugged Haifa
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    Hello everyone ... I living in israel.
    I also have the same problem. My vehicle Manufacturing from 0 in England. the factory under the highest quality control in the world of Honda.

    I have 1.5T (L15BA) Civic hatchback with only 1500 k''m and I small gas in oil. The problem is world-wide.

    Our temperatures are lowest at night at 18-21 degrees - there should be no problem because of the weather, as Honda claims.

    You have the same problem in your country because it's the same engine.
     
  8. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    A friend of mine has contacted Honda UK regarding dilution problems and they replied that there is no problem with the 1.5T engine and they have no concerns or recieved any reports from customers or the dealer network. Is Honda trustworthy anymore? or are they doing a VW and hiding the truth and keeping secrets? The truth will eventually be out and Honda if not careful could end up with major egg on face.... !! Thats how company reutations are destroyed
     
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  9. Beefy Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    unfortunatly in the race to make engines as efficiant as possble, its becoming a race to the bottom in reliability and honda is no exception. its a new engine line up and a direction that honda has not delved into untill now. I.E direct injection and turbo. both have there pitfalls. but im confident honda of all manufacturers will iron out any problems one way or another.
     
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  10. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    I hope your right beefy I have contacted Honda myself now regarding this but they deny any knowledge of this, not exactly confidence inspiring or a way of looking after loyal customers which without they would not have a business!

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Beefy Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    If people remember, Honda went through this with oil dilution in the I-DTEC due to DPF re-generations. It was mapped out with an update with little to no reports of engine damage or failures. There was no issue from Honda in paying for oil and filter change as part of it. And nobody talks about it since. Regards turbo failures. Well of course it’s going to become more frequent. You rely on the quality of Honeywell’s turbo’s and out of hundreds of thousands there will be a handful that are not up to scratch. I guarantee no manufacturer using turbo charged engines is immune to turbo failure. The bottom line being. hondas track record speaks for itself. For now keep an eye on your engine oil level. Somthing all car drivers should do at leist once a week.
     
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  12. Nels Club Moderator Club Staff

    :whathesaid:

    Basic maintenance will ensure you stay clear of so many avoidable problems.
    You just need to make the time to do it!
     
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  13. tomwillie Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    This is why we are in the process of buying another 4th Generation June 18 pre registered manual 2.0EXi to replace our six year old CR-V. The new 5th Generation CR-V also has 28 litres less boot space than 4th Generation, which was another factor
     
    Last edited: Saturday 13th Oct, 2018
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  14. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    I wasn't aware of the dilution on the I-DTEC, always keep my eye on the oil once a week ..... its good practice IMHO.
     
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  15. Nels Club Moderator Club Staff

    Exactly. :Thumbup:
     
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  16. tomwillie Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    Honda have also refused to confirm what measures are taken in their direct injection engines to prevent coking of inlet valves. Toyota now use dual port fuel injection to minimise this problem & VW are doing likewise in some of their engines. Fitting catch cans will invalidate the warranty so this not such a good idea as a remedial measure.
     
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  17. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    Looks as though Honda are being tight lipped about a few things. I really hope that the Honda engineers did their homework thoroughly when developing the 1.5, what does encourage me is they took 7 years to develop the 10G I just hope they did the same on the engine. If the 1.5 over time ends up with design faults that cost owners a fair amount to put right I will probably look to another manufacturer when it comes time to change.... not something I really would want or like to do
     
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  18. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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  19. andy83 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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  20. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    I hope you are right andy

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
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