Engine & Gearbox N/A b series limit?

Discussion in 'Honda F/H-Series' started by TopGear, Wednesday 19th Jun, 2013.

  1. TopGear Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Completely hypothetical, but what are the limitations of a Naturally aspirated B series engine..

    Correct me if am wrong..

    But the best block seems to be the B20 as it gives maximum displacement..
    So say you had a B20 stroked, with custom pistons, con rods and crank..

    With a Bseries for arguments sake say a ITR head, machined, ported, aftermarket cams, springs retainers, the works...

    What would we say would be the maximum achievable power output, whilst actually remaining drivable and reliable..?

    And what are the things that hold it back..
    Compression ratio?
    Ignition/ spark system?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Thursday 20th Jun, 2013
  2. KineticAutomotive Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I'm not too clued up on B's, but I'd say once you start playing around with higher compression internal (Which you'll have to do if you're trying to make big power with an N/A B-Series) you'll start losing not only drive-ability, but general reliability. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm lead to believe higher compression engines need to run on higher octane fuel to avoid detonation. I'm not a fan of high power N/A builds. While I do have respect for the people who make F/I power without any form of boost, I see them as more of a 'How long will it last?' build, rather than a 'How much HP can it make?' one.

    http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1583606

    49 pages long ^ Read to your heart's content. Obviously not all of them will be good daily drivers, but it may give you an idea of what could be a happy medium.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Thursday 20th Jun, 2013
  3. Haychvtec Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    494
    The sleeves on a B20 are weaker compared to the rest of the B series engines.

    A high compression B18 could make around the 230-240bhp mark, but it wouldn't be cheap though. That would be a decent street car I'd say.
     
  4. ste91 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Not sure if he's on this forum but there was a guy on CR-X-UK I think his name was Daz @ DNR who was the main man for B20's. I think 200bhp was fairly easy to achieve with B16 head/B20 block/Type-R cams/remap. 
     
  5. Tahir Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Stroked B20 (2.2) with Darton liners (85/86mm) and 12:1. With the right cams and breathing mods (headwork/intake/exhaust etc).


    I would say 270hp is perfectly achievable whilst staying reliable and drive able.
     
  6. Vtimark Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Some uni kid spent 10 grand on a b16 and only managed 240. Anything is achievable it all comes down to cost and schedule in the end.
     
  7. r3dd3v1l Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    probably alot easier and possible cheaper to run a k series?
     
  8. Law Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Not also forgetting the higher the CR, the less margin for error on the tune.
     
  9. nominous Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Deck plated, sleeved, get it up to around 2.4L with bad RS ratio.

    P72 head with port reworking.

    Monster cams, ITB's.

    Serious budget only to get raped by a K.
     
  10. Mr Scott Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    ^^ raped by a K series when lol ?? there's only one K series in the uk n/a that beats my little B series and thats Daz's monster K24 with 320/330bhp :thumbs:   ( which is no longer together )

    My new B20 build is heading for 260-270bhp n/a and it hasnt cost that much tbo as i've been buying up the 2nd hand bargains :Grin:
     
  11. nominous Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    A hypethetical question on the limits of a B series NA.

    The limits of K series NA are higher.

    You even stated that.

    Being in the UK has nothing to do with the question ?!??!?
     
  12. Mr Scott Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★


    oversea's B series have seen over 300whp and run very low 10's shame the uk is so far behind :Frown:

    and remember Chris Miller is still running a B series with a P.B of 8.0 @ 189mph so the K series still has some catching up to do   :Wink:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Thursday 20th Jun, 2013
  13. nominous Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Nothing stopping folks from building them here over than the whole $=£+import duty + 20% VAT.
     
  14. Naj_Ej Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    so you have raced every k series in the country? lol 
     
  15. Mr Scott Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    No need too mate Dom holds the K20 quarter mile record with a 13.0 in a gutted EG with a few more tweeks and a proper tune ( only 240bhp at the time ) it'll would have ran a mid 12

    unless you know of any k20 swaps going faster ?

    Anyway back to topic i'm trying to dig out the info of the Belgium n/a B20 running the early 10's :Wink:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Thursday 20th Jun, 2013
  16. Naj_Ej Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    just thought it was abit of a bold statement tbh.


    im sure u knw of "k20 wtf" like i said in the other thread, it will be a very intresting race. if it ever goes ahead.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Thursday 20th Jun, 2013
  17. Mr Scott Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    it is pretty bold tbo there might be a K20 in the uk somewhere which has run faster than Dom but he's keeping it quite if he has :Wink:

    love that race to go ahead he has all the advantage he won't run from a dig and it's upto 145mph i'm a quarter mile queen it's not built for that but should be a great race, if it was up the quarter mile I'll stick money on it but rolling to top speed i'm not so confident but its all good fun :Grin:
     
  18. TopGear Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    That B series from Beligum sounds awesome any more info?

    Anyone know of any Insane N/A b series builds?

    I know people say go K series go turbo blah blah.. Am just interested in whether 300bhp+ is achieveable in a N/A be series engine...
    It's purely hypothetical, as ill be building a similar B20vtec as Mr Scott..
    Updated, cams, springs, retainers, cam gears probably (Skunk2) etc... RsMachine 84mm pistons and 47mm ITB's :like:
    Hoping to achieve 225bhp..

    But with researching B20vtec just interested in its B20vtec NA limits...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Saturday 22nd Jun, 2013
  19. RandomDan Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    There is always a place for N/A power, may not be faster than some turbo cars but you can still put alot to shame im sure!
     
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  20. Naj_Ej Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    im doing a 400-450 turbo b series build, but still i want to do high comp h2b build one day.