Engine & Gearbox honda Prelude 5th Generation new engine!!

Discussion in 'Honda F/H-Series' started by Sinuro, Monday 25th May, 2015.

  1. Sinuro Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    hi, i am new to this forum and need a little help from some people who know there stuff about hondas (preferably 5th generation Preludes)

    the trouble is i don't know if it was just one type of engine they used in the cars, so can i buy a 2.2 VTEC Prelude engine and expect it to work with the engine electronics that i currently have in my car?? or do i need to find one thats suited to my engine code if i have one? if i do have an engine code, where would i find out the engine code number on my model honda (5th Generation)?

    and a bonus would be great if anyone knows of any honda scrap yards in the uk atall? the closer to canterbury/london the better, but anywhere will do at the minute

    thanks guys!
  2. Nels Club Moderator Club Staff

    Hi Joe, it's customary to Introduce Yourself and tell us about your Honda. If you add her to the Club Garage, it helps us to help you.

    You can usually get engine number etc from the VIN. These are usually under the bonnet or on the B pillar.
  3. Leo at H-Tune Director H-Tune Staff

    United Kingdom DeviateDefiant Kettering
    Welcome to HK @Sinuro, there's a few different engines used in the 2.2 Prelude, but chances are it's either a H22A4 (base spec) or H22A5/H22A8 (VTI). If you follow @Nels advice and add your car to the garage, I'll be able to tell you which it is from the grade/year.

    Any of the H22 lump can go in really, but they all have varying power outputs so you want to choose wisely. If you match the original engine, the replacement is about all it will need - if you decide to change to a different H22, then you will either need the ECU to go with it (in most cases), or to convert to a generic ODB1 ECU for a tuner to map the new engine properly for you.

    The H22A7 from the Accord Type-R (209hp) is a popular drop-in for the 5th Generation Prelude owners. There's also the rare JDM "H22A" at 217hp found in the Accord Euro-R, Prelude Type-S and Prelude SiR S-Spec - just to confuse you some more :Laughing:

    @Accord_N22 is our resident Prelude fanatic, he might be able to give some more pointers :Smile:
  4. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Thanks @DeviateDefiant

    Hi Sinuro, deviantdefiant and nels pretty much summed it up really.
    The 5th Generation Prelude was only available with these engines in Europe

    2.0iF20A49.5:1133 PS2WSBB9
    2.2 VTiH22A5 (97-98)
    H22A8 (99-01)
    185 PS
    200 PS
    2.2 VTi-SH22A5 (97-98)
    H22A8 (99-01)
    185 PS
    200 PS

    If you have the 2.0 litre F20A4 engine then its a major conversion. My recommendation in this case would be to sell your current car and get a Prelude with a 2.2 vti engine already in it, as the costs to replace a 2.0 litre engine would far outweigh the cost of the car. Unless the car had sentimental value or if the chassis was absolutely mint/low mileage etc . if your replacing your engine with the exact same one then it would be an easy remove and replace. Typical labour charges would be around £600 to £700. excluding the engine.

    The H22A5 engine is usually reconsized by the cam rocker cover being black known as black top and was released on 5th Generation Preludes in 1997 until 1998 it came with 183bhp. The H22A8 engine was released on the final revision of the 5th Generation Prelude and was recognized with a red cam cover and known as the red top it came with 197bhp.

    See this link an you will learn a lot about the above 2 engines.
    The website was created by a member called carrisma and a member of lude generation forum and which I took a lot of inspiration from when I first bought the Prelude - a very informative website
    My Car

    Sorry I don't know of any particular scrap yards for Honda's but if you check Ebay there are numerous Preludes being broken.
    Lude generation forum - car breaking section may be of some use - have a browse
    Honda Prelude • Cars Breaking

    See here for an image for directions to find your engine code in your car

    Hope this helps
    Chunkylover53 and Nels like this.
  5. Sinuro Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Thanks for the help so far guys, my car is a 1999 Honda Prelude 2.2 VTEC, is that VTI aswell? Or is that something different altogether?? This is my 1st Honda as you can probably tell, and I'd like to try and get another engine exactly the same as my one now, as I think all the valve rods are bent, as the timing belt went and this can happen afterwards right??
    - - - Updated - - -
    Or just a new head, but preferably a new engine
  6. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Hi Sinuro
    Sorry to hear about your timing belt. Have you confirmed that the timing belt is gone?
    How much mileage has the engine/car done? Was the engine running perfectly prior to the timing belt going?

    You are correct with the fact that valve rods will have been damaged but it also depends if the engine was in VTEC when the timing belt went?
    Guys, correct me if I am wrong but I think the H22 is non interference when not in VTEC and interference when in VTEC.
    This would mean if the timing belt went when not in VTEC then the valves should be ok, but if the engine was in VTEC when the timing belt went then the valves would have most likely been damaged.

    Being a 1999 2.2 vti you would have the red top engine (h22A8) which are a little more rarer so finding a replacement red top H22a8 may be rather tricky.

    My recommendation would be to repair the existing head. Providing the engine had no other issues before the timing belt issue.
    It is a straight enough fix to repair the valves and re-new the timing belt.

    A common problem with the H22 engine is the auto tensioner, this is a device that tenses the timing belt, the auto tensioner that Honda fitted can give way causing the timing belt to slacken and possible skip teeth. I experienced a couple years ago but luckily none of the valves got damaged, the engine was still running and I heard a flapping belt sound in the engine bay. Check out my Prelude thread to hear the videos.

    A common upgrade to the auto tensioner issue is to replace the tensioner to a manual tensioner (fixed type) form the H23 engine. That way the tensioner is fixed and should not give way if the engine is driven hard.

    A place called performance autoworks (PAW) performed the upgrade for me.
    Give them a ring to discuss and enquire about your issue

    Performance Autoworks

    contact details
    Performance Autoworks

    I can't recommend them enough. I have always used them for all major mechanical work that I can't perform.
    Even if you don't use them they always give good advice

    Speak to Rich
    He is a very informative person and knows Preludes like the back of his hand. (he has owned so many)

    He will advise you on your problem and the most cost effect way to get it sorted.
    However I would assume the car would need to be trailered to him

    Hope this helps
    Last edited: Tuesday 26th May, 2015
    Chunkylover53 likes this.
  7. Sinuro Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Thanks again for your help, this forum is great :Grin:

    I was going about 30mph when the engine just stopped (cut out), prior to that I was on the motorway going around 70mph, the engine has done 120,000 miles or around that mark, when I tried to start the engine again it sounded like a starter motor turning on its own, but not grabbing onto anything (I'm not saying this is the case, but if you can imagine what that sounded like then that's what I got)

    And if you say the valves might not be bent, I thought that the valves are open and closed always? If one row isn't open (for instance after the explosion to let the fumes out), then won't the other be open to let the air and petrol in?? I'm not saying 'your wrong' but would you mind explaining that part to me? Is it because of VTEC that the valves are protected as such if VTEC isn't engaged??

    Side note: will the automatic tensioner be a straight forward replace for the manual one? If it's from a different model won't it be harder as they don't go on what there intended to??
    - - - Updated - - -
    Oh and I forgot to say the engine was running amazing before this problem, went from perfect to shit out of luck in 1.2 seconds :Frown:

    And no the timing belt might not have gone, before I took it all apart and investigated I wanted to see what problems it could be and what it wasn't, I was only advised that it sounded like the belt had gone from a friend (knows a little about mechanics)
  8. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    You really need to remove the cam cover to see what is going on underneath, this will also show you if the valves are bent and the timing belt stil intact. Regarding the valves interfering only in VTEC is something I read many years ago about the h22 engine so you need to get professional clarification of this.

    Once the cam cover is removed this will then give you a clearer picture of what is damaged and what needs doing.
    Its only a few bolts so shouldn't be hard to perform yourself.

    The H22 manual conversion is a well known modification to the h22 engine - all you need is the required parts.

    See here
    HOW TO: H22 Auto Tensioner to H23 Manual Tensioner Conversion - Honda Prelude Forum : Honda Prelude Forums

    Honda Prelude Accord Manual Tensioner Conversion Kit for H22A Series Engines - H-Tune ● H-Tune

    From the sound of your explanation it could be electronic related. Has your car got an alarm - the imobilizer may have malfunctioned and cut the engine out.
    Could be worth looking into
  9. Sinuro Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Yes my car has an aftermarket alarm, but the car was on then suddenly cut out, so it couldn't be electric/alarm related could it??
    - - - Updated - - -
    And if it was that, how would I take out the alarm without damaging the car or car electrics? I know a little about cars but the big things I'll give a go, coz I never liked the after market alarm anyway, those things never work do they? (I bought it with it on anyway) so if I took that of maybe could that solve it? of course the timing belt I'll check aswell to see if it is that before I mess about with electrics
  10. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    There have been issues with the ignition switch on the Prelude and also various models of Civics- known problem.
    The ignition switch contacts prematurely wear out and can cause the engine to cut out instantly.
    May be worth checking out

    I have had an after market alarm on my Prelude the paper works /certificate shows that it has bene installed for over 12 years.

    It all depends how the alarm has been installed.
    Toad and Clifford's alarms are one of the best reliable ones in the industry
  11. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    how did you get on mate?
  12. Sinuro Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Not to good, the engine is gone and need to find another one, and like previous said in this post these engines are rare to find ... Such a pain, is there any places in or around London that do Honda parts that anyone knows off?
  13. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Soz to hear that mate,
    can't the engine be rebuilt or repaired or is it a total goner?

    Maybe go the route of sourcing an ATR h22a7 engine - they are much easier to find and more powerful.

    Maybe asked these Honda specialists to see if they have your engine lying about
    Hond-r, performance autoworks, endless horizon, DnR performance engineering, performance tek,
  14. Sinuro Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I would like to repair the engine, but my trust in places that do that has gone downhill from previous experience with a VW, when I took a head to the guy to skim, done all the work of putting it back together, and then only to have the same problem of water in the oil happen again

    Do you know of any places that are trust worthy to take an engine to then? I'm in Kent (Canterbury) but I won't mind going to London or Essex for them as long as it is fixed
  15. SpeedyGee Club Manager Club Staff

    England Speedy Birmingham
    So what work does this engine need doing to it ?
  16. Sinuro Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Well like you said, if it can be repaired then I would like to do that, as I can't find an engine for them anywhere on eBay, forums, or scrapyards, maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but the belt has gone, so whatever work needs to be done to save the engine from this problem that's already happened, but my knowledge of engines stops there, I don't know wether you need new valves, rings etc.
  17. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Phone these guys, I can't recommend them enough
    Ask for Rich and say Alex recommend you. He is a great guy and very very helpful

    He knows the H22 engine like the back of his hand.
    He will advise you on what roughly needs doing but obviously he will need to actually see the car and strip the head to give you an accurate breakdown of the damage.

    Performance Autoworks

    Performance Autoworks
    Unit 13
    Horcott Industrial Estate
    Horcott Road
    GL7 4BX
  18. Hawki Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United States Dave Yreka, CA
    I'm so totally impressed!! Between what I've read here and on your Prelude page, it is obvious that you have not left one detail undone with this car. Every little thing you have done has been so with care and commitment to perfection. I hope to emulate the same approach with my US version '98 base. Being retired now, my budget will dictate a slow pace to the mods, but I choose to do them with the same attention to detail you have obviously have taken with yours.
  19. Accord_N22 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Thanks @Hawki
    Lude generation forum is basically where I have learnt about the Prelude.
    There are so many experts on there who the Prelude and even to this day some of the information on there is mind boggling.

    Thanks for the kind comments. Your Prelude looks like a fantastic base, i love the OCD level of cleanliness in the engine bay.
    Hawki likes this.
  20. h22betterthank20 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Scotland anon ano falkirk
    hey i had the rare h22a SiR turbocharged what an engine!

    BUT PLEASE....

    Do not buy a perfectly working Prelude to take bits out of.
    I purchased a gold/yellow montegi for parts but was so beautiful i couldent break it. (see pic)

    h22s are solid and love revs but burn oil, most h22 breaks are due to lack of oil!

    good to see you keeping this soon to be classic on the road!

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