Discussion in 'Dealers, Garages & Body Shops' started by Azzaaaaaaa, Tuesday 12th Feb, 2019.
I'm autistic, details ma' jam
Had some more positive feedback yesterday from a potential buyer,
"I've just had a read through your post on the forum via the link higher up this thread and from that I can say categorically that HH have failed totally in dealing with your complaint at every step. My next move would be issuing legal proceedings against them, all costs will be awarded against them as they are clearly in the wrong. This will cost them dearly and their reputation will be in shreds as a result. Not much consolation to you but I have relatives living nearby that very dealership who are considering purchase of a brand new Civic, I have warned them off doing the deal through HH having seen your experience. I would not wish your experience on anyone especially not my family so I thank you for the heads up on this Azzaa."
I'm glad my experience is coming in handy, i just want people to be aware of what COULD happen should things go south.
Now if these things were properly placed on the likes of google reviews or social media reviews, people would be more informed from the get go.
Unfortunately that's not been the case.
As always I welcome anyone's responses good or bad, I'm here to share my experience, if you've had a positive experience that's great - maybe between the two there's advice we can give to other potential customers to allow them to avoid my circumstance and get the best out of the experience you had.
But who's to say that these relatives of said person would have had the same issues as yourself, their experience could have been perfectly fine, could it not?
Or alternatively, who's to say that going somewhere else would eliminate this possibility.
That's not the point here, the point is to inform people of what COULD go wrong. Not what WILL go wrong, as there's no guarantee - they could have a good experience, who knows?
There's also no guarantee that by going elsewhere they would have a perfect service, the point here is to make people aware and leave them the information about what COULD go wrong, and let them research for themselves the times things have gone right, and come to an informed decision.
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There's a number of people who've been let down by HH, and you'd be hard pressed to find their experiences online as they've been pushed down the reviews, in addition they use the Judge Service platform, which only ranks data on the last 3 months - meaning anything past that you've no idea if there's ever been anyone let down.
Add to that the way autotrader doesn't let you distinguish between it's and JS's reviews or let you sort for the negative ones to see what happens when things go wrong - and you're left with a picture somewhat smiling with rainbows, and that's now how things really are, there should be a balanced viewpoint, I mean take my case - I left a review with Honda UK, HH's stats remained at 100% for both sales and service - they didn't budge! And I still can't even see that review ever went live, and when I chased it with Honda UK, utter silence...
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Ah yeah, suppressing bad reviews or fudging figures isn't right either!
In part it's because of the way Judge Service works, but it's a paid service so I suppose you wouldn't pay for it if it make you look bad...
But the social media side is shocking, I left a review with HH, banned, got the wife to leave one, banned, asked Holdcroft Nissan for advice on a new K14 micra (throttle ridiculously sensitive as if the factory map isn't using the entire pedal travel, just a penny width) banned, I asked a colleague send the same message - bam instant response.
People need to make up their own minds on using them, it's not for me to say AVVOIIIDDDDDDD lol, I just want people to be better informed - had i been able to see the reviews I've found since everything kicked off, I'd have run a mile, because some of the reviews aren't just we had a problem, they're we had a problem tried XYZ and they continued to fail us then everything wen't unprofessional kinda thing, which is the last thing you want to see, if they showed a resolution to a problem you'd feel better knowing they reacted positively and make steps to satisfy the customer alongside ensuring they improve so that doesn't happen in future.
Been in to honda this weekend to choose my reg for my new car... was so busy, the had some sort of event on, but still made time for me and looked after me. Honestly it was like the local pub at christmas, everyone seemed in good spirits, getting on laughing and joking and buying cars. They said they had done nearly 30 in 3 days..
I mentioned this forum thread and they are aware of it, I said why don't you reply. They responded very professionally, we know the customer who is writing it and we chose not to respond, the individual can tell his lengthy stories However all is not what it reads and there is two sides to every story. He also said We sell as a company over 700 cars per week and in the 53 years Holdcroft has been in business there is only one customer who they have chosen not to deal with, ill let you make your mind up who it is. They didn't get it to any discussion about it.
I can't fault them, I'm actually annoyed the this guy is going out of his way to try and deter people from using them.
One customer band in 53 years you must be something else.
Nice to read another side to the story. Very few things in this life are black and white. I have never bought a car from HH, or visited one of their showrooms but I have bought accessories from them at a very good discounted price with excellent service. At the end of the day, you pays your money and.....
Sorry, missed your post...ang on.
Whether you're annoyed is irrelevant, and read my posts fully, my point here is to show my experience whilst also welcoming the experiences of others, we've also discussed adding buying experience tips into this thread also.
The atmosphere's great, I had the same thing when I had the Accord, it was on a valentines event if i remember right - and when we brought the Civic a similar approach, couldn't do enough for me - and then things started going wrong, and at that point the happy demeanour disappeared from the sales team - service team were fine, albeit a bit fed up of constantly seeing the same car - but what else can you do when you pointed out a list of things wrong with the Accord that just weren't fixed prior to handover? Should I have just said ah it's fine I'll live with the faults?
It's a friendly place to be, it's not pushy, there are some knowledgeable people there, unfortunately it's where things go wrong that you're left with a Jekyll and Hyde approach as their so inexperienced in dealing with complaints they'd rather bury their head in the sand than man up and fix the issues, because let's face it, was I asking for the world here?
I asked for:
1. The Accord to work - so it didn't constantly get stuck in limp mode
2. The Civic to have dual controls that were installed by a professional, and didn't cause the car to brake on it's own, alongside genuine heated seats (why you'd pay 24k for a brand new Civic and ask for aftermarket kit idk!)
Was that so much to get right? Are they not supposed to get that right when selling a car? For your expectations to be met? I didn't ask for booster rockets, a solar panelled roof or a fridge in the rear seats - my requests weren't ridiculous, and more importantly "N" agreed to everything we asked for, and in the case of the Accord the sales chap "R" we dealt with said the faults on the accord would be sorted prior to hand over (they weren't).
I have a feeling it's "A" who you've spoken to, and his consistent pitch has been ignore this guy, we sell loads of cars - now if they'd genuinely dropped the ball, heck even if i WAS complaining for the fun of it (which I'm not), don't you think as a responsible business their response would be something along the lines of yeah, we couldn't come to an agreement and unfortunately we failed that customer? Not, that customer can tell his lengthy stories, but it's not as it reads? I tell you what, I'll start uploading exactly what happened in the near future, as the "A" was very unwilling to put things down in writing, hence the lack of replies, it's nothing to do with we choose not to respond, as he'd been nit picking at reviews I'd left for quite a while previously, i fail to see how he's suddenly "new year new me'd" and chosen to remain silent.
Although saying that I believe every man and their dog at HH are aware of this now, the reason being I don't accept being lied to constantly from a main dealer, in addition I see no reason I should accept two cars, one ordered from factory, with faults - and get nothing but excuses on why things weren't fixed, and when I'd point out what was said, "that's a false truth" (Thanks "T"), I'm not the only person who's been screwed over, the difference is I don't roll over when an organisation thinks it's OK to constantly insinuate you're in the wrong and you've inventing problems for the fun of it.
As i've said previously, I'm not the only person who's been screwed over by these, and as they gain resolutions to their issues, positively or negatively, those individuals will be given the chance to highlight their experiences also.
Watch this space
Agreed! It's not all bad, I've never said as such. People get such a stick up their a*s about people being negative about a company, things aren't as you say black and white, there's an element of negativity to any amount of positively, no ones getting 100% positive reviews forever, it just doesn't happen.
I'd rather stand up for myself and ensure that my experience is shown somewhere that HH aren't able to delete for future reference, to aid potential buyers in the future, rather than let someone else go through what I have on two separate cars with HH by not being aware of what could potentially happen should things go south with a purchase.
That's fair isn't it?
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I spoke to google business support as I noticed everytime I added evidence pictures to my review online, they'd disappear by the next morning - on one google group would maybe be a glitch, but to happen everywhere seemed a little suspect, so I asked for more information, I explained the situation to them and their response was as follows:
Thank you for your patience.
I have discussed the matter with the team.
When you upload the pictures in the review, they are added in the gallery of the business page, and then the owner actually flags the photo and so it is removed
See image uploaded, this is the left hand side of the centre console, where the contractor organised by HH when fitting the cheap dual controls (not the one's we'd previously agreed and paid for), he managed to crack the fixings on the console, and rather than report this - attempted to hot melt glue the thing shut.
At first I took the car to HH to say, is that a gasket or something used to prevent vibration or rattle? The workshop manager and service manager both looked over the car and said that's not something done at factory and agreed it looked like Hot Melt glue and would need the console out to investigate and repair - this was never completed as Holdcroft refused to have the car in on account of me leaving a review. Of course they won't admit to that, as they refused to put it into writing, and when I took the Accord down when it hit limp mode again, as you'll see from the two below images:
it was brought in via AA escort, who were baffled to see they refused to take the car in for repair, and noted it down in their report (attached), I asked for it in writing that they were refusing the car otherwise it's purely hear say, service manager agreed and went to write it up - I'm sat there at his desk watching him write the email when a call comes through, and he said I'm told I can't issue you ANYTHING in writing.
So I waited outside with the AA discussing options, when service manager comes back out, and he looks frustrated at this point and you could tell by his body language and tone he'd been asked to come out as a messenger, nothing more, as this was a lad I had quite a good rapport with, and admittedly it wound me up seeing the only person I'd developed a good working relationship with (because I spent almost all my time with the service team) being forced to sit in the middle of me and the HH management - he came out and said we'll "Look" at your accord, if you remove your review online....
I'm utterly floored at this point - and what management didn't expect at this point was that I had my wife on the phone who heard the entire conversation as I made sure the phone was kept running.
I said I won't be bullied nor intimidated by anyone, that reviews there because of the poor performance you've shown with both purchased we've had form HH, should you rectify things and make things right, which is what I asked for - then this would go a long way to building bridges and trust between I the customer and you the dealership.
It's a pretty standard thing isn't it, if someone leaves you a bad review, you work with the customer, fix things and then the reviews amended to say look we got off to a rocky start, but they came good in the end and I want that to be reflected in what's written? Nopeeeeeee - they didn't want to know anything like that, just wanted it removed.
Now what I will say about the Accord before anyone throws the diesel DPF regen thing at me is, this isn't my first DPF car and I'm aware of how the regen process works and how you should maintain a DPF fitted car. If you check the handbook for the Gen8 Accord it states:
During my ownership, and I'm not the only one who's had this as I've followed this issue on both forums and the honda social media owners groups, I NEVER once saw the DPF (Regeneration Required) symbol, and to my knowledge it NEVER regenned on it's own - I took the damn thing to manchester and back from stoke, it's a long enough trip!
I only ever saw the DPF (Check System) light illuminate. I queried this with both Honda UK and HH and neither had any anwsers, other than HH telling the finance company the check system light was on because I caused it with my driving style - believe me, I kept the call recordings from the finance company! That was said without even having the car in the dealership to even confirm what the fault was? How they made that conclusion without seeing the car is beyond me.
There's a lot more to upload, it's just time consuming!
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Oh one final note, I noted a few people say they've had accessories and parts from HH with no issue, couldn't agree more, really nice bunch to deal with - I've heard glowing reviews about the parts team, especially the Cobridge lads - which I'd echo, when I spoke to them they were really happy to help out - and knew more than the sales team did so...BONUS! Wish I'd had listened to them over the sales team, I literally would never have been in this mess to begin with.
Forgive my suspicions, @Golf_R but are you in some way connected with Holdcroft Honda? Perhaps even one of the employees mentioned by @Azzaaaaaaa ?
Feedback to give a balanced view is one thing, but the final paragraph of your post was extraordinarily petty and vindictive, not at all something that a regular punter would have posted!
Oh, and I note that you only joined the forum a few days ago...
I asked for some feedback on the dual control installation, in summary we asked for He-Man dual controls, a well established and trusted brand used by the majority of driving instructors (87% of those who replied to a public poll voted they would only use He-Man), HH organised the installation of the dual controls after we asked for the He-Man kit, what they installed was a different kit, not made by He-Man and that subsequently caused issues with braking, in that when the brake pedal was pressed, the dual control kit caused the brake to stick on, causing the car to come to a stop - you can imagine the danger this puts the car an occupant in should you be driving on a dual carriageway or motorway and the car comes to a halt?
Firstly, I contacted the chap who did the aftermarket dual controls, asking why he didn't install He-Man, and who asked him to install non genuine parts i.e. not He-man?
"Iwas sub contracted to.this job and the other company informed me to fit a universal has they said he man had not made the controls to fit a Civic 18 plate has they had not seen 1 to make the kit "
Contacting this guy wasn't easy, as I asked HH for who they used, BAS said "T", their Motability specialist - I contacted BAS, nothing to do with them, so I asked for the contact details of the guy who installed the kit, "T" provided that after me chasing multiple times..."T" also said the guy they used was definitely approved, so i contacted He-Man too
"Thank you for your email.
I can confirm that "Mr Installer, to avoid naming and shaming" are Not an Approved agent of He-Man Dual Controls.
And the image shown in the photo is not one of He-Man’s controls."
So, "T" said he was an approved He-man fitter, whoops - appears not.
So, subcontracted? And another company informed them to fit a universal kit? To avoid jumping to conclusions and assuming HH said to fit the aftermarket kit, I did some digging, firstly BAS, they confirmed they didn't sub contract work out and used their own installers, so not them, they pointed me in the direction of GradeSixSupplies, who again said they don't sub contract work out and only sell dual control kits, the style that had been fitted,
When I asked the installer who he meant by other company?
"Can you stop emailing me any information you want get it off honda this is harrasment"
Well I tried Honda, who sent me on a run around...
The only other company involved in the process of fitting the kit was...Holdcroft Honda.
In the end an approved fitter came to look over the kit and advised a replacement, but as He-Man hadn't created a kit for the Civic yet, we'd have to have a prototype kit fitted which he'd have to fit to the vehicle, once fitted I asked for some feedback on the issues with the other kit to which he replied:
"Regarding the previous dual controls, those particular controls have a few shortcomings in its design where by when driving the inner cables have nowhere to go when cars clutch or brake is applied so can interfere with the car in many ways. That paticular fitment the clutch roller was loose and not in the best position so the inner cable was fraying. The rolers are not wide enough which reduces the angles for the dual controls to work effectively. The dual brake pedal was being held on at times due to the bad design. The clutch and brake pedals were not adequately attached to the pedal box. The pedal box was only held in by self-tapping screws. It's most advisable when securing the pedal box to have at least one bolt securing it to the car."
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I noticed some odd things during my time with Holdcroft, and things you would normally miss - for instance, their motor ombudsman score was only at 29%...
the moment I raised this point during the complaint to illustrate that I wasn't the only person who'd had issue with them, that seemingly overnight jumped to over 90%...Odd
Then there was this,
Look closely at the car, what do you see?
I thought hand on, the price for the 1.6SR is suddenly a LOT less than I'm paying, and I had a look at this when it was by the showroom doors and it had the adaptive suspension and genuine heated seats fitted, I thought hang on they said during the complaint I couldn't have those things as they weren't available on the SR??? But it's there as clear as day?
I wen't in and asked them that, their reply...it wasn't an 1.6 diesel SR, it wasn't even a diesel for that matter confirmed by the exhaust tips - I found it extremely odd they'd be showcasing a brand new 1.6 SR Diesel Civic for such a low price, and when you looked over it, it had a number of extras only to find you couldn't actually get those things when you came to order them...their response to me was that they didn't organise the sign writing, they arrived like that..
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This is how the heated seats were left,
And that's after I tidied things up! You see the power wiring going from under the seat into the fuse box looked like it should have run under the centre console, instead when we picked the car up it was draped along the seat runners (safe?) So I moved the wiring the best I could out of the way and queried why these weren't genuine heated seats - which is where I got the old " you didn't think we were fitting Honda genuine seats did you " ?
Funny that, spending £24000 on a car and expecting optional extra's to be genuine equipment...
For those doubting the company would actively seek to have negative reviews removed, he's an email I received from "A" after the cars were repurchased by HH, note for the avoidance of doubt, nothing had been removed from google.
Please accept this email as confirmation that we have taken possession of both Honda vehicles and all outstanding funding has been cleared.
I am very grateful for the removal of the google review, will you be removing all other reviews and negative facebook comments (Also "Your wife's" Review on facebook)
I hope you and "Your wife" are enjoying your new cars and I wish you both well for the future.
A bit of a strange message? I offered to amend the review numerous times and offered olive branch after olive branch to find an amicable solution, it was met with a mixture of decline or silence, thus my response indicated the same.
Thanks for confirming that, however as you'll no doubt be aware through your active social media presence where positive reviews are concerned, we're unable to revisit anything on social media as "TA" has taken to blocking people with negative experiences from the social media pages, in addition Holdcroft made threats to the Honda Karma site in order to have my posts removed and me removed from the site - showing yet again the Holdcroft customer promise is nothing but a facade, and you're unable to act in a professional manner when something doesn't go your way - and as you've stated on a number of occasions, you're the head of the Holdcroft Honda business, so the fault in this lies with you directly.
You've clearly learned nothing from this, and that's a great disappointment because you had an incredible opportunity to turn the negative experience you caused into a major positive and retain the custom of us both alongside our good word being passed out to pupils, friends, family and co-workers, you've been given opportunity after opportunity as a business to learn from the mistakes you caused with both vehicles - you've instead chosen to blame everyone but yourself and chase for any negativity in relation to the business to be hidden.
"A", you don't get to treat people like dirt, insinuate they're lying, openly discredit their views as nothing more than a blemish against a wall of positive statistics and assume they'll bow down and say nothing further.
I've been reviewing the information you supplied via the GDPR request, there are holes in the information supplied, where is the test drive form completed for the EX grade Civic (it was John's Civic so you'll have a note of the registration), in addition where are the logs of when the vehicles came to site - further to that why are there pages of information missing? There are examples of documents with page references noting page 1 of X and you've supplied one page, not the document it pertains to.
Please arrange for this information to be sent out as soon as possible.
That was October 2018 - they've yet to send anymore information and have actually breached GDPR as a result...
I even reached out to the MD "D" regarding the review pictures magically going missing and how when I asked the Nissan Holdcroft social media team a quick message about the new K14 Micra, I got a swift social media blocking, however when i ask someone else to copy and paste the same question they respond immediately....
I tried asking the Nissan team a quick question about engine lag online for the new Micra platform.
The response was me being blocked from their social media too, nothing offensive just a question about turbo lag and retrofitting illuminated treadplates to the vehicle (I kept the screenshots noting that Nissan Holdcroft was suddenly unavailable, and noted the change in the facebook page go from open, to closed off).
Every morning I notice the google review I left for the Honda dealership in Cobridge has it's pictures magically removed, I've had it confirmed by Google Business Support that the owner of the google listing is actively flagging every picture I put up in an attempt to have them constantly removed, not the most professional way to act with customers is it?
I may have had the cars taken back but I was still a customer, and heck, if Holdcroft are insistent on removing my opinions relating to two purchases and assuming they never happened then surely the verbal blacklisting "A" informed myself and two witnesses of in our last outing doesn't apply - as nothing ever happened...
For the record, the so called ban that's in force I think is ridiculous and I'd compare the company to a small child throwing the toys out of a pram when they can't get their own way where that's concerned.
So far we've had requests for the review to be removed, legal threats made to websites hosting the review, images on the review being actively targeted for deletion, an effort to direct traffic towards judge service and indicate I'm not a genuine customer etc...
What exactly is your problem with a negative review as a company?
Why is it the businesses does not appear to see the value in using a negative review to improve?
I'm sure during your career you've had experiences that weren't brilliant, that were used as a foundation for either ensuring that doesn't happen again or as a major learning point to improve upon.
Would you care to comment on whether this is company policy to smear reviews or whether this is something you were unaware of?
- I don't expect you to be aware of everything in every dealership, I made sure to keep as much as I could in writing expecting that should you want to look into what's happened here I had the evidence straight to hand.
The review has been left because as a business you refused to be amicable, I gave you multiple chances to fix the Honda Accord when in law you get one before I can contest the car and have it rejected, similarly I spent hours chasing the dealership for bookings, courtesy cars, progress updates only to then take the car back in the following week because it'd be back in limp mode.
This was my first Honda, and Holdcroft experience. It didn't really bode well, especially seen as it was an approved used Honda (which strangely hasn't ended up back on the forecourt after being handed back).
The dealerships note turned sour because they didn't like the review, and at no point did they ever try and resolve the situation to have that review amended - which I expressed on multiple occasions would be the case, if the situation was resolved as I intended then there would have been no reason for me to not update the review to reflect that.
Interestingly I spoke to a Nissan staff member at the weekend who confirmed he'd been on a course recently whereby the entire message of the day was the customer is right regardless and it's easier to accept that from a reputation and financial standpoint than risk losing future business.
That's a fine statement, and it makes sense - however in my case I received the complete opposite, a swift denial that anyone at any level did anything wrong, in fact the only apology I ever received from any party was from the service manager who agreed they'd fallen foul of fitting incorrect equipment into the new Civic we'd had - the look on "A"'s face suggested this wasn't the company line he intended.
I'm more than aware "C" has gotten a lot of flack from the sales team for the relationship he's had with me, I don't think it's professional for one team to criticise another purely because they're getting results and actively working with the customer - surely they should all be doing that.
Again I'm more than happy to recommend "C" as an excellent member of staff, regardless of the issue I had he had always been willing to sit down in his office and say "Yeah okay, we'll fix that, don't worry", so I hope you'll take that on board as positive feedback where he's concerned.
Unfortunately I'm now managing to expose more and more failings within Holdcroft, from a refusal to comply with GDPR down to the potential selling of knowingly faulty vehicles, the inability to service a car properly - or to carry out safety checks to not being able to deliver cars that are in line with what was agreed with sales staff, even to the point the Accord I was sold the dealership never filed the paperwork with the DVLA, so I've never even been the registered keeper of that vehicle - something the DVLA aren't thrilled about and I'm hoping the new owner of the car was made aware of, as the logbook shows one keeper less than it should do.
I would remind you at this point I've given you multiple chances to address this, as you've refused my invitations directly alongside your businesses refusing to own their failings I feel I've now a duty to inform potential buyers in future of the failings in the Holdcroft Customer Promise, and that should anyone have issues with vehicles or processes there will be a support system in place to ensure that as a collective, the voices of those wronged by Holdcroft will be heard.
I never did anything wrong here - and I won't be made to feel like I've somehow wronged the entire Holdcroft group by stating cars weren't as they should have been, there's a growing number of people who feel wronged by the group and I'd urge you to reach out and improve relations with them, as at present as a collective there's a large push towards taking the breaking of the Holdcroft Customer Promise to the main media outlets.
Merry Christmas, and congratulations on the elf on a shelf promotion, it's quite entertaining to follow (no doubt there'll be another blocking there to prevent that).
A ban did come from the Holdcroft Motor Group social media site, quite recently in fact, they had an Honda awards evening and I put a comment on the customer service awards where they said they were highly ranked, and I said I hope the customer service in 2019 is better than what you demonstrated to me in 2018 - bam, banned...
There's also the point about paying £1232.34 (I know right? 123 234?) as a payment to get both cars repurchased by HH.
This was something I had to propose as they were unwilling to do anything...
My message stated the following:
"In summary so far:
We purchased a Honda Civic that was mis-sold to us, and the reasons for that you should be aware of by my previous messages, what I would say is that I now have it in writing that the installer and Holdcroft Honda were aware there were no He-Man dual controls prior to the hand over of the vehicle, and no one made the customer aware of this so they could cancel the order (it is a deal breaker as an instruction vehicle).
To completely solidify this point I surveyed a number of professional driving instructors and 84% of respondents use He-Man dual controls with only 16% using universal controls.
In addition the dealer principle "A" said they couldn't modify the heated seats that were mis-sold because they were a 2 stage kit and not a 3 stage kit as is on the Civic from the factory (this can be confirmed by the service manager who was present in the vehicle at the time of this discussion), I have it in writing now that the choice of heated seat installed within the vehicle i.e. the 2 stage and not either genuine parts or even a like for like 3 stage setup, was chosen by Holdcroft Honda.
So to be clear, I've statements confirming that
1. You as the dealership knew about the lack of He-Man parts for the Civic, the installer knew about the lack of He-Man parts for the Civic, and the dealership chose to install a Universal kit without confirming this with the customer (I have it in writing that the installer was instructed to install a Universal Kit).
2. You as the dealership specified a heated seat kit that wasn't even a like for like with the current setup on factory Civic's, and this was not confirmed with the customer prior to install.
I'm sure you'll be aware that I brought the Honda Accord down to site on Friday as it's failed once again (the DPF has failed despite it being replaced not long ago), I was told the dealership would not accept my keys and would not accept any car from me due to my complaint.
I asked for this in writing and half way through the email a call came through and the email was subsequently cancelled and I was told I could have nothing in writing.
10 minutes later I'm approached by a staff member saying he'd been instructed to ask tell me they would "look" at the Honda Accord if I removed my reviews online.
I rejected this and said I won't be blackmailed nor bullied by a dealership, negative reviews are there to help the business improve and thrive, it's an opportunity to understand the needs of the customer, resolve outstanding issues and hopefully leave the customer feeling the dealership warrants trusting again and thus modifying their review to take into account the satisfactory resolution that's reached.
Negative reviews are not something to be actively covered up in order to potentially falsify customer satisfaction ratings, I mean case in point - my wife has been blocked from your social media for sharing our review to your Cobridge site (I've evidence for that as well), is banning people really an appropriate response for leaving an honest and genuine review?
This is actually affecting your business in a negative way, I surveyed a number of potential buyers and asked them to read my buying experience and let me know whether they'd consider you for a potential purchase in the future, 74% would not buy from you, based on my buying experience alone.
The Honda Accord has been nothing but the proverbial Automotive 'lemon' since I've had it, I noticed numerous faults during the test drive which were never remedied prior to pick up, when questioned the response was that the technician had been sacked (I'm sure you can check that), and I've had warranty item after warranty item as a result of fixing things that are either things wrong that were never fixed to begin with or things that subsequently failed, I'd note here the DPF has been an ongoing problem since I brought the vehicle.
Please note here that the Accord is now sat on my drive and is unusable, the AA have told me to not continue driving it, and they've also noted the dealership refused to accept the vehicle for repair, so I'm paying for a car that's become effectively an EX-GT shaped paperweight, and I'm now lift sharing to site as I have no use of other vehicle and can't afford to buy another one whilst the finance on both vehicles is still running.
To be clear here, the response from Holdcroft was that no future business was to be carried out, based on my understanding the Honda Accord remains under an existing warranty, with existing faults as an existing Approved Used Car - there's no new purchases there short of an MOT which forms part of the Approved Used Car service in that it's a "preferential MOT", and the Civic has a Holdcroft (not Honda) 5 year service plan and is booked in for warranty work, both of which are existing faults and transactions - all of which have been refused despite none constituting 'future business'.
As I explained to the staff member on Friday, this is having a detrimental affect on my wife's health, and I explained on Friday that the Civic being without appropriate heated seats isn't practical as my wife suffers with her lower back on account of being in remission from cancer of the stomach which wrapped around her spine.
I have given the dealership chance after chance after chance to resolve this, and we're currently at stand off because there's a break down in negotiation from Holdcroft's side. I'm hoping you'll now look favourably to my request and put an end to this confrontation amicably, I bear your business no Ill will nor misfortune, your dealerships have been around since before I was born, it's been something of a constant for my entire life, and I'm a man who prides himself in giving back through volunteering and buying locally - buying Holdcroft is part of that ethos that I thought would be a good move given the length of time Holdcroft has been around, it hasn't thus far and I'm hoping we can change that.
I'm doubtful I'll receive a reply to this as I haven't with the prior emails to yourselves, however I will offer some solutions for you to consider.
1. Buy back the Honda Accord & Honda Civic for the amounts owing on the finance, I'm not asking for a full refund here, just what's owing on the finance to clear the balances and return the vehicles, Honda finance are already attempting to broach this with the dealership however they have informed me they have yet to reach the 'right' person on site - Honda finance are prepared to offer a wind-down figure which reduces the value to be repaid on the finance
2. Offer another vehicle of similar value in exchange for the Honda Accord & Honda Civic (Accord at a minimum considering the hell I've had with it - I personally cannot see the Accord ever being a reliable car, there's just been too much gone wrong with it and as a result I don't trust the vehicle).
My discussions with Honda finance have also confirmed the valuation on the Accord is much higher than the finance value left on it, so I'm in no doubt you can resell the car again for a profit - especially considering the warranty value it's had put back into it (master cylinder, passenger switch pack, new DPF, door trim, speakers, door garnishes etc.).
We can then either purchase another Holdcroft vehicle should you still wish the custom, receive a car(s) of similar value or take our business elsewhere - admittedly that's limited as you appear to own most dealerships within the area covering most makes of vehicle!
If you can arrange for the buy back of one or both vehicles or an offer of another vehicle of similar value in exchange I would take that as a gesture of good will in spite of our ongoing issues and look to modify our reviews to take that into account. Our intent here is to make good from a bad situation and be able to encourage my wife's employees to standardise their instruction vehicles so they have a common presence on the road, in addition to encouraging the engineers I work with along with friends and family to consider a Holdcroft dealership for their next purchase.
I kindly request a reply to this message, either from yourself, your PA, "A" , "K" etc. I won't be accepting any calls regarding this for known reasons, I'm hoping we can sort this quickly given I'm now without a usable vehicle so I would impose a due date of Friday 28th September for a response and/or solution moving forward.
Things then progressed and something was drawn up which I'll attach at some point, but there was a payment to be made to them of £1232,34 which baffled me...
When asked what the payment was for and how it broke down?
We are not obliged to share the calculation of how the offer was put together.
“the offer holds great cost to the holdcroft motor company and was proposed without prejudice to save all parties, Time, Inconvenience and cost. The offer is fair and reasonable”
I assume from the renewal of your review on two occasions today that you are not prepared to accept our offer.
The offer as discussed yesterday evening will stay open until 11am on 4/10/18
I look forward to hearing back from you.
I am out of the office as of 11.15am and will not return today."
Pay me! Why? Just because?
Am I really being such an A*se of a customer here? I wasn't chasing for every little scratch and defect to be repaired, just things that were agreed by HH and myself!
The responses I received just didn't seem they'd come from a longstanding business cemented into the community, it honestly felt, and still does tbh, like the schoolground bully scenario.
Hey wait, I just realised something...
"They responded very professionally, we know the customer who is writing it and we chose not to respond, the individual can tell his lengthy stories However all is not what it reads and there is two sides to every story." Thanks GolfR
So, despite saying they chose not to respond, they've insinuated I'm lying...
WHICH DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS THEIR EARLIER STATEMENT OF:
"I have met you in person on several occasions and have found you to be a pleasant and genuine person"
Holdcroft Group have good scores on Trustpilot.
But I think I found our fellow member's review in here... https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.holdcroft.com?languages=en&stars=1
Not entirely no, 13% are listed as "Bad", with 3% "Poor" and 2% "Average"
I'm under no illusion there won't be 100% negative reviews on them, because the customer service aspect of the business is, for the large part, out of their control!
Think about it, car sales people have to hit targets, the lowest performing are often told to buck up or given the boot (In some cases), so it stands to reason if you've a high staff turn over you're more inclined to see the worst performing staff who caused you issues not there should anyone else go to the dealership trying to avoid the same person who did you as disservice - make sense?
What I've found from this, is regardless of how many positive reviews they have, check the poor, average and bad ones, as it's a company's handling of negative situations that really defines their customer service outlook and how much they value you as customers and more importantly as an individual, look at the google reviews on the Cobridge site, you'll find the response from A was to add a timestamp on when he believed the review was originally posted - note it's only on specific reviews, the one's where they really dropped the ball and people weren't letting them get away with it.
It's pointless information, when it was posted has, really, no point - the issue is how they failed to resolve things amicably with multiple customers, and if you look back at the dates from when my review was posted, you'll notice there's a slow trickle of positive reviews now and again via google, then a few months later as mine went up - magically all these 5* reviews suddenly appear - almost like people were being asked to throw a review up...the net effect pushes mine down the list, so should you be looking for a vehicle you wouldn't see mine unless you scrolled down or filtered for negative reviews...
I mean case in point, I refused to accept faulty cars and bad service, their response was to
1. Say nothing was wrong
2. State to Honda UK and Honda Finance that the issues with the Accord were of my own making
3. Refuse to fix the Accord or service/MOT both the Civic & Accord (including the cracked centre console their contractor broke and tried to hotmelt shut)
4. Battened down the hatches and refused to communicate regarding any of the vehicles and told me to go elsewhere whilst in the knowledge they owned 4 of the closest dealerships, plus the parts warranty with the fix's on the Accord were in their name
5. Refused to state why the accord was sold as an approved used car yet was put on a listed plan warranty i.e. not an approved used car due to age, which means it shouldn't have been sold as an approved used car
6. Refused to send over most of the information pertaining to both Accord & Civic, they've doctored the information and given the bits they think is relevant, despite me issuing a formal GDPR request, that they've not fully complied with
7. As I said I'm not dropping this as they left me with a broken Accord and a damaged Civic despite us paying well over £30K total for both cars in basically one month, they saw fit to ban me from the dealership - as they claim I'm the only person in 53 years who's been banned (I dispute this tbh, as from other customers I've spoken to, I'm not the only one who's been told to sod off).
8. They passed my details onto every other Holdcroft company without my knowledge or approval, pretty sure that's a violation of GDPR?
Would anyone here accept a 6 month timeline on repairing an accord (or anything for that matter), where everytime you took it back in they either fumbled the repair, it broke again or something else broke? Like the passenger door switch pack that broke which I took in, took the mrs out for dinner as they said it could be a while, came back, got in the car and nothing worked still - I wen't back in and they'd told me it was repaired, by luck the workshop manager was there who said why are you telling him it's fixed, we don't even have the part yet to fix it...WTF?
Would anyone here accept a broken centre console by one of their contractors, then when questioned have to dive down the rabbit hole to unravel a load of lies in terms of who did the work - oh it was BAS, so you ring BAS, nope nothing to do with us, it was Grade Six, ring them, no it wasn't us but he used our kit - so you ask the contractor, who told you to basically fit anything other than what I (the customer) asked for - you get some weird response back that he won't anwser questions and i needed to go ask Holdcroft, so you query with the manufacturer of the kit you asked for if the contractor was one of theirs, nope not one of ours and he's not even fitted out product - wait what? But Honda said it was all legit and above board and fitted what we wanted???
Same with the heated seats, who told you to fit generic kit? It was supplied on the offer form, ok who filled out the offer form? Holdcroft, ah so Holdcroft decided on aftermarket equipment and just didnt say anything about it?