Engine & Gearbox Do JDM engines not have Exhaust Gas Recirculation?

Discussion in 'Imports & Worldwide' started by Whisker Version, Saturday 23rd Feb, 2019.

  1. Whisker Version Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Bristol
    61
    18
    I had the car hunting at idle yesterday (Honda K20A 2.0), then eventually it stalled at a junction. There were no fault codes stored, so I cleaned the gunge out the throttle body to see if this helped. There is a crankcase breather draining into the throttle body, bringing residues in, but I couldn't see any EGR valve near to it. Do JDM cars from the mid noughties not have them?
     
    Loading...
  2. honda_saj Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom saj east london
    1,730
    842
    3
    Loading...
  3. DrSam Club Moderator Club Staff

    United Kingdom Sam Birmingham
    2,212
    1,479
    Hmmm, I thought it would have one unless it was blocked using blanking plate.
     
    Loading...
  4. jd1959 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
    557
    315
    I've been looking at this for a while and inquired with a few other RG Stepwgn owners. Some of the later RG models do have and EGR and some don't. Both part numbers for EGR and non EGR water passages are listed in JP parts. Mine doesn't have an EGR and there is no blanking plate extra wiring or anything else suggesting there ever was one. The HDS tells me that the EGR isn't on this model when you go into the testing.

    In looking at part numbers it seems to have a k24a1 head and non EGR water passage that match up with the 02-06 2.4L CR-V. Also the intake is an RAA type with a chamber and no EGR distribution plate there either it just runs into the injector base then into the head.

    Best I can figure its a K20 block with a K24a1/a4/a8 head keeping the 9.6:1 compression ratio giving 155hp rather than the 160 of the k24a1.

    If you've had the battery off or you've cleaned out the throttle you'll need to let the ECU relearn the idle throttle position as its an electronic throttle and there is no IAC.

    Leave the battery disconnected for 15-30 min or clear the PGMFI with an HDS. Run the engine till the cooling fan kicks in twice. With no electric on (lights, climate control, etc) and without touching the steering let it idle for about 10 min. That should solve your hunting idle and erratic behavior.
     
    Loading...
    DrSam and Nels like this.
  5. Whisker Version Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Bristol
    61
    18
    I think I got away with the cleaning process. Not knowing any better, I wedged the accelerator pedal down so that the butterfly valve opened for me to clean inside the throttle body; the car drove OK and idled steadily during a short test drive.
    I've had a rattle on startup for a few weeks that goes away after 30 seconds. I can't hear it from the engine bay with the bonnet up, but I can hear it from the the drivers seat. I suspected it might be something like a water pump bearing? Anyway, I wondered whether some extra friction on the engine could also be a cause of erratic idle. I've made a recording, and the rattle starts 9 seconds in. It's a bit like a machine gun, but not loud, and doesn't seem to alter pitch or interval with revs. Any thoughts what it might be?
    https://instaud.io/3lvD
     
    Loading...
  6. jd1959 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
    557
    315
    A guess would be belt tensioner not the pulley bearing but the spring in the tensioner itself. When mine went about 130k km you could see extra movement in the system and the rattling noise was far worse when the AC compressor kicked in. You can see the extra movement in this video. On the top of the assembly there is an arrow as well that can help track the movement. If it coincides with the rattle noise you've probably found the problem. Not the worst job to replace and there are many options for spurious or OEM parts.

    In the future if you're cleaning the throttle your better off removing it entirely rather than using the motor to hold it open. With the gearing in the throttle it easily has enough force to remove fingers if it activates while your cleaning it!! The other thing that can happen is jumping the gearing in it which can lead to the wholesale replacement of the throttle. Not cheap.
     
    Loading...
  7. Whisker Version Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Bristol
    61
    18
    Well, I've ruled this out now, and all other ancillaries at the same time, by removing the belt and running the engine, only to find the noise is still there.
    The rattle doesn't seem to increase in frequency with engine RPM, and is most resonant at about 1800rpm. I've taken the car to a local garage, and they reckon it is either piston slap, or a little-end bearing. Ouch! My days as a Stepwagon owner might be coming to an end, and the car's only done 72k miles.
     
    Loading...
  8. Zebster Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Surely both those issues would definitely increase in frequency with engine RPM?
     
  9. jd1959 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
    557
    315
    I hope not but running without the belt would definitely rule out anything on the accessory system.
    A few thoughts, but this puts me well out of my pay grade as a back yard mechanic.

    Have you checked valve adjustment and all the rockers just on the off chance one of the adjusters came loose on a valve or things are badly out of tolerance. While in there check timing chain isn't loose in case the chain tensioner is failing. Also this will give you a good idea if the oil has been neglected at any point. It should be clean and free of sludge.

    Disconnect injectors or remove plugs individually to see if you can narrow it down to a particular cylinder, also does it get quieter when warm? Once you find the offending cylinder crank to TDC and push on the top of the piston through the plug hole with a long screwdriver if you see movement or hear a ticking noise very well could be rod knock.

    Run a wet compression test - should help identify piston slap?


    I wish you the best of luck 72k miles is nothing for these engines mine has over 150k miles without any major problems.

    Zack
     
    Loading...
  10. Whisker Version Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Bristol
    61
    18
    You make a good point, Zebster, and I agree with you. I can only hear the noise for 30s to a minute, but the garage mechanic was able to hear it for up to 5 minutes, so I assume his ears are better than mine or a stethoscope was used; he was convinced the noise was emanating from the engine. To me it feels like a resonance issue. Since I'm not going to have the engine stripped or swapped based on speculation, I might try an oil change. I noticed from my records that I performed an oil change in December, shortly before I noticed the rattle. At the time, I thought "this filter looks small" and it was definitely smaller than the one I removed, but it was the correct part number. A Bluprint ADH24292 came off, and I put on a JapKo 10410, which was meant to be a replacement for the OEM 15400-PLC-004. Perhaps this could affect the chain tensioner piston when the oil is cold? I also used Magnatec 5W30 A5 because it was reduced in the shop, but the A5 part might not have been the best thing since it reduces viscosity under high shear, but I couldn't find anything in the manual or internet stating to not use it.
    - - - Updated - - -
    I did suggest this to the garage, and gave them permission to adjust the valve clearances if they though it might be responsible, but they didn't do it or mention it as a suspect cause. From looking at Youtube, it seems piston slap can almost be a normal feature in some engines, almost from new, and the engine can go on for 100s of kmiles, so perhaps sealing is not compromised and a compression test wouldn't reveal anything? What is odd is how the noise came on quite quickly.
     
    Loading...
  11. jd1959 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
    557
    315
    I think at this point a more involved diagnosis would be appropriate. That the noise came on suddenly is pretty concerning in my book. If it is one of the more major things the engine will destroy itself eventually. If its something like a valve train issue or chain tensioner it could be more cheaply remedied and the engine kept going for a few hundred thousand more miles.

    It might be worth putting up a new thread with the clip of the noise and what has been done already in the k series sub heading you might get a bit more views and assistance from folks with more knowledge than me at least.


    Also the number of mechanics that I have spoken to that don't know that Honda's have solid lifters and need adjustment is ridiculous. I might be worth a second opinion - unless your in the rare position of having a trusted mechanic.
     
    Loading...
  12. Zebster Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    The lack of correlation between frequency and engine RPM might point towards a resonance issue with a loose heat shield, possibly one close to the manifold?
     
    leonard likes this.
  13. Whisker Version Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Bristol
    61
    18
    I've noticed I have a white paper label affixed to the engine block on the driver's side, a few inches to the rearwards of the VTC oil control valve in the head. It seems to have the engine model on it, except, in my case, it looks like a snail has walked across it and eaten the central bit, so I can only see K20A.... If yours is intact, it might give us the full model number? There is also meant to be the engine number with model stamped on a flat area below the throttle body, but I cannot see it on mine. Perhaps this is only on export versions?
     
    Loading...
  14. jd1959 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
    557
    315
    I just had a look and although there is evidence of a sticker nothing legible left.

    At a guess you are trying to figure out the bits to put an engine together if yours completely goes. The parts dept at the dealer might be able to help with giving you the part numbers used in your particular one. They varied a little bit on configuration depending on what VIN you have. What I've potentially figured out is via part numbers on https://jp-carparts.com/ and cross reverencing with other Honda parts.

    If you can get a head, cam and block part numbers you should be able to put together and engine using bits out of yours like intake, water passages, and so on.

    Another option is to contact some of the import guys and have them get a complete used engine shipped in with their next container, its surprisingly not that much more expensive if your willing to wait. The Stepwgn is pretty popular in Russia as well so there are many salvaged engines that direction if you can sort out shipping and so on.

    There are a few places that specialize in Stepwgn and other imports you could try contacting some of them for help never used them but https://automatrix.uk/ is one.

    Sorry to hear with all the work on the upper end, that the rattle still persists.
     
    Loading...