Discussion in 'Politics & Philosophical' started by gongoozler, Monday 29th Feb, 2016.

  1. gongoozler Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Am I the only one who thinks I am not aware enough to vote in June? The only arguments I am hearing are conflictive and self promoting...It will not get better! In my opinion it is a "get out of jail" for ALL politicians. After the vote if anything goes whotsit's up, then it will be our fault...."the will of the people" will it not?? Wheres my option on the ballot paper to say "Not enough QUALITY information"....that will never be there. What are all these people for? Can they not make a reasoned decision ?(Of course not they are all the same).......
  2. Ichiban Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    England CJ Leeds
  3. vincemince Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Have a read through this thread below it will shed a little light on the matter
    It's a difficult decision to make - stay in come out - you just have to read and listen to the arguments made on the media outlets and decide if they are true or not - Difficult I know
    And then make your own mind up

    I just wish the OUT campaign would have negotiated a deal/deals , with the EU , which everybody could see and so know before voting exactly what they would be getting if they voted out !
  4. AccordCU2 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Brum
  5. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Ed Wiltshire
    Agree about the lack of real information.

    I was a committed 'in' but I've started to think about 'out' a bit more recently.

    Surprisingly, I currently consider myself to be undecided.

  6. steve4536 Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Cameron would make a good snake oil salesman. I'm going with BoJo.....OUT!
  7. Ichiban Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    England CJ Leeds
  8. Zebster Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

  9. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Uk
    In Out shake it all about! Im still unsure which way to vote to be honest
  10. vincemince Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    CathyJ_NW likes this.
  11. vincemince Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

  12. MickyB Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I was initially out but am considering moving abroad in a couple of years time(oh thank god for that says CJ:Grin:), but having talked things over with my brother who currently lives in Spain it doesn't look good for Ex Pats out there if we come out.
    I have a number of concerns and reasons for coming out like everyone I feel the biggest Issue is the immigration(this is not getting at anyone in general so no anti Mickyb campaigns please). I have worked and served my country since I was 15 years old and I'm closing in on 60 and what do I get from this government ?? Nothing taxed on pensions taxed at higher rate on income because of my pensions, and where does my hard earned tax go??? To help immigrants in war torn countries in deprived countries we send billions abroad in aid.
    Well my motto is charity begins at HOME and why do we have ex service personnel living rough on the streets when Somalian refugees who have been here 8 years and have not lifted a finger to get a job live in multi million pound houses in London paid for by the councils( our tax money). I would love to have a say as to where my tax money was spent but in 20+ years of living here I have never seen an MP coming round door to door to speak to their constituents, I read a lot in local papers from them making decisions on bombing Syria with comments like "my constituents where not in favour of the bombing campaign" don't know who he was speaking to because he never came and spoke to me.
    Get this country sorted out you get enough pay and expenditures but seem to do sod all about it.

    My thinking is if we go then my plans for moving abroad are pretty much sunk.

    If we stay then the last one out please bolt the gate and switch the lights off cause I will be gone.

    Politicians will only tell you what they want you to hear not everything.
    CathyJ_NW and jimjams like this.
  13. vincemince Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    May be worth reading and following !

    Fortunately, there are some good sources they can turn to. Two websites, the broadly neutral and the pro-EU, both puncture myths in the debate. The House of Commons library produces excellent reports, which are available online. And a group of academics led by Anand Menon of King’s College, London, have set up “The UK in a Changing Europe”, financed by the Economic and Social Research Council, which has a lively website.
    The Economist is not neutral in this debate: we believe Brexit would be bad for Britain, Europe and the world. But we also want to explain the issues and present the facts. So over the next four months, we will publish a series of Brexit briefs that seek to do this, as dispassionately as possible—in the hope of satisfying even the Gradgrinds among our readers.
    jimjams likes this.
  14. jimjams Guest

    Certainly, if OUT wins, there will be a period of turmoil, but my "philosophy" on life is that where there is a fork in the road, if one way produces short-term turmoil, the other way will produce less turmoil but of a longer duration i.e. overall the nett outcome is the same whichever way is chosen i.e. staying IN will produce as much pain in the long run.

    Thus I honestly don't think it will make that much difference. But what does annoy me is the "Utopian" dream of many IN campaigners e.g. "eventually a united states of Europe will be a good thing". Twenty years ago I did actually think this, in the mid-90's I looked forward to the Utopia of being able to get into my car, and drive to the continent with the same currency and ability to travel anywhere with no borders ...just like the USA. But twenty years on, that is a weird view to have, the countries are different, vive la difference. In the 21st century we don't need a common currency for travel, or indeed for export and import. Hey there's this thing called the internet, and instant transfer of money. In the 21st century, the Euro turns out to be the most ridiculous white elephant. Local regional economies are a better way to manage things in the 21st century.

    On that basis, the idea of a "united states of europe" is the same as the Euro's another white elephant, it's unnecessary, it's actually a baseless dream.

    Finally, "wars" and "terror".
    Well this surely dates back in our DNA to the loss of the 17th & 18th & 19th legions in the Teutoburg Forest

    where is my time machine, I'm going back 2007 years with a mini-gun to sort the Germans out once and for all LOL
  15. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Ed Wiltshire
    It could be a fascinating debate @jimjams - if either side is really up for giving us some clear vision.

    I really am undecided now. I want to be optimistic and have far closer ties - I have been for political union for some time, with a Ferderal settlement and regional assemblies - but the more I ponder on it the less likely that dream is based on the current EU structure.

    Perhaps Brexit would force a total re-think, which could be to our long term benefit as Europeans. For me that would have to involve Russia as well.

    One thing that does irritate me about the 'out' campaign is talk of 'Europe' as if we aren't part of it. Just as bad are the scare tactics being used by 'remain.' For the love of God just give me some information so I can make an informed choice!
    vincemince likes this.
  16. Bomber209 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Lanky Aberdeen
    Get me OUT. I voted IN first time as we were already signed up, and it was a trading union. We all but dumped the Commonwealth countries then, now we might have to go cap in hand back to them. The MEP's are a joke, jobs for those unaccountable unknown faces. I live in the country with the Mother of Parliaments, so don't need people who don't understand my way of life to dictate why and wherefore. The Common Agri policy is a joke with other countries ignoring the rules and doing as they please. The Fisheries policy another chaos, where we cannot rule our own sea boundaries. I can understand refugees families, but not lots of single young men (avoiding conscription).
    I've worked all over the world, and had to change my currency where ever I went, get the correct visas and abide by their rules, no problem. Spain Greece etc jumped on the Euro band wagon and got shafted, all they really had as an attraction was sunshine and cheap way of life. Now we just go further afield to find the same.
    Rant Over!!!
    Malibu and steve4536 like this.
  17. vincemince Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    You might find it useful to look at the sites noted in #10 and #13 and follow the Economist but question everything - quite a lot of misrepresentation and spin going on
  18. vincemince Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

  19. HondaHeritage Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    slim london
    i weakend and read this posting
    i wish i hadnt i can't even begin to give my reasons in fear of upseting so many people that don't have a true grasp of being british ,an englishman and embrace the culture of this country
    i as a true englishman fear i am going to lose my country which im extremely proud and passionate of
    this is the last chance to put the GREAT back in britain but i fear it is already to late
    i would like to say more but what i have read here already deeply saddens me and feel that our british electorial blood line has been infiltrated and damage beyond repair
    god help my country and this is a statement i,d never thought i,d make
  20. AccordCU2 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Brum
    Now now don't hold back Slim and get it off your chest.
    You might just feel better.
    I am sure "non nationals" won't take it to heart.
    Zebster likes this.